This recent development in the voucher program is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. That extra few hundred million dollars will serve our BBB-induced state deficit well if/when lawmakers finally admit that a school voucher system needs a cap. I foresee school voucher reform being the bipartisan solultion to the deficit (with the Freedom Caucus digging in its heels and producing all sorts of political theater along the way).
Thank you for the continued reporting on Project Blue! Councilmember Lee is having a public meeting about Project Blue later this month (you may have already reported on it), and I’m interested to see what that brings.
IESA getting guardrails is a pipe dream. Jake Hoffman will fight tooth and nail to keep ESA’s unrestricted. He already has Yee as a primary opponent for Tom Horne who is a loser in his own right. He’ll primary any Republican that steps out of line. Only will change come when there’s a Democratic majority in the legislature. I’m pulling for your hopefulness. Maybe the $440m will wake up some courage but.....
It would be more helpful, if you reported on (1) the total number of data centers Project Blue will be allowed to build on the large property they bought from the county, (2) the amount of water each data center may use, based on what other data centers use, (3) the fact that, Tucson Water is required to supply water to all entities within the city limits! (4) once annexed, it appears we're stuck with supplying Project Blue with as much water as it can use. (5) the total electricity Project Blue may use/need based on the number of data centers it can build. (6) what Project Blue is contractually required to do based on its contract with Pima County and what is just talk written on the wind. (7) the key unanswered questions Councilwoman Nikki Lee is asking (8) the timeline for Tucson's decision
Lillian, I’d love to report on all of these things. We aren’t holding back.
None of these things have been made publicly available and will be released as part of the development agreement.
However, while Tucson Water is required to provide water, they can and will put restrictions in place.
I can’t, as a city resident, simply use water 24/7 for say, an underground bottling facility. They’d come in and shut me down - my rights are not infinite and to that point - Project Blue will also be capped at specific amount.
The County’s contract is contingent on annexation, so it is moot until the city makes a decision.
Finally, the city’s decision window was outlined here in the TA a few days ago.
We all want that information, but they’ve very specifically said it is proprietary. Sounds like the city, lead by Councilperson Lee, is working hard to get some answers.
In Mr. Ferguson's first response he said, "However, Tucson Water can and will put restrictions in place . . ."
When I asked him to show me the statute that allowed TW to restrict water use. He changed his mind and said the restrictions would be in Tucson's contract withProject Blue.
The contract hasn't been written yet. There's no evidence the majority of the city council plans to put water or electrical restrictions in the contract with Project Blue.
There won't be any do overs, if the contract doesn't have any restrictions or, if it has restrictions that aren't good & smart enough.
After all, the Pima County Supervisors voted 3 to 2 to give Project Blue unrestricted access to our reclaimed water before it even gets to Tucson.
Project Blue was saying the wanted 2 years of an unknown amount of potable water from Tucson. Now they're quoted as saying they want 3 years of potable water from Tucson. With nothing in writing, who knows how much water and for how many years Project Blue take our drinking water, if the city goes ahead and annexs PB..
1. Tucson Water, a wholly owned subsidiary of the city of Tucson, has provided input to the city manager's office (who used to be the director of Tucson Water until he was promoted to deputy city manager and now is the city manager) for the development agreement. I didn't change my mind, they are both on the same side of the negotiating table. More importantly, water is far more complicated than a single statute in Arizona Revised Statues.
Active management areas, contracts related to individual use between Tucson Water and various statutes give.the city the ability to manage its water use of its customers, both large and small.
2. Of course the contract has been drafted. The city, Councilwoman Lee and this publication all have posted public timelines for Project Blue. We all have said a development agreement is expected to be made public next week. I sincerely doubt they are starting from scratch on Monday.
3. You are trying to use a negative proof fallacy. Due to the NDA, we don't know what the city(and by extension the mayor and the Council) has or has not asked for in the contract.
But you are also ignoring the big purple pipe that has been made public that would be paid for by the developer to deliver reclaimed water from the city of Tucson. This is proof that the city has had advanced talks about water and how much Project Blue wants to use. Also, while I will concede it is a massive pipe by the laws of physics suggest how much water can be delivered.
4. The Pima County Supervisors voted 3 to 2 but it has nothing to do with water. They don't have a water utility and can't confer water rights from the city's water supply. (Drilling for water would also violate Tucson Water's management area.) Their vote sold them the land, and the developer knew it would have to be annexed into the city to get water for the data centers. A second vote by the Supervisors was related to zoning.
5. We don't know how long it will take to build the 18 mile reclaimed water pipeline and the associated pumping stations. The variance is based on time estimates, but I expect the annexation agreement will put a time certain on how long they have to build the pipeline.
Sorry, but an unscientific poll is a waste of journalist' and readers' time. It means nothing. If it turns out to be consistent with the results, it doesn't gain validity, it just reflects coincidence.
Just because Project Blue claims it's proprietary information doesn't mean it is.
In fact claiming it's proprietary is nonsense. Thay got Pima County to sign a contract with no idea of how much of our dwindling water supply they'll consume and no idea of the cost to upgrade our electricity infrastructure.
You're both making assumptions about Tucson's/Tucson Water's legal ability to limit Project Blue's water use once they've been annexed.
Produce the statutes that allow limiting water use within Tucson.
Other people, including one of the city councilor members already have.
When Jennifer Allen and Nikki Lee answered questions Monday on DGT, neither one claimed Tucson Water had any ability to restrict Project Blue's water use after annexation.
Both are calling for environmental impact reviews before economic development projects can be approved, one at the county level and the other at the city level.
No, I am not speculating. I've talked to Nikki Lee and Jennifer Allen, and two dozen other sources about Project Blue.
Asking for a statute isn't the right venue, you want to look at the development agreement they will sign in exchange to be annexed into the Tucson. That contract is going to be the main enforcement arm of the city IF the development agreement is signed. There WILL be a limit to how much they can use.
The city literally has the wrench (or button if you want to me technical) to turn off the water if Project Blue violates their agreements.
Yes, lawyers would be involved long before someone grabs the wrench but the ultimate power lies with the city as BP isn't pumping groundwater.
Additionally, it will be reclaimed water, which the city/county can only produce a specific amount. No matter how much PB wants to use, there is a finite supply.
In other words, there's nothing currently in place to limit PB's use of our water. We're holding our breathe hoping the city will be smarter than Pima County was and write water limits into the city's contract.
Pima County had the ability to limit access to our reclaimed water and it did not. Pima County's contract provides PB with access to the reclaimed water as it comes from the sewage treatment facility before it even gets to Tucson Water!
Love the Spy vs Spy reference. Good work, TA crew. It’ll be interesting to see if you cracked the code on the end user, or if AI was hallucinating.
This recent development in the voucher program is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. That extra few hundred million dollars will serve our BBB-induced state deficit well if/when lawmakers finally admit that a school voucher system needs a cap. I foresee school voucher reform being the bipartisan solultion to the deficit (with the Freedom Caucus digging in its heels and producing all sorts of political theater along the way).
Thank you for the continued reporting on Project Blue! Councilmember Lee is having a public meeting about Project Blue later this month (you may have already reported on it), and I’m interested to see what that brings.
IESA getting guardrails is a pipe dream. Jake Hoffman will fight tooth and nail to keep ESA’s unrestricted. He already has Yee as a primary opponent for Tom Horne who is a loser in his own right. He’ll primary any Republican that steps out of line. Only will change come when there’s a Democratic majority in the legislature. I’m pulling for your hopefulness. Maybe the $440m will wake up some courage but.....
It would be more helpful, if you reported on (1) the total number of data centers Project Blue will be allowed to build on the large property they bought from the county, (2) the amount of water each data center may use, based on what other data centers use, (3) the fact that, Tucson Water is required to supply water to all entities within the city limits! (4) once annexed, it appears we're stuck with supplying Project Blue with as much water as it can use. (5) the total electricity Project Blue may use/need based on the number of data centers it can build. (6) what Project Blue is contractually required to do based on its contract with Pima County and what is just talk written on the wind. (7) the key unanswered questions Councilwoman Nikki Lee is asking (8) the timeline for Tucson's decision
Lillian, I’d love to report on all of these things. We aren’t holding back.
None of these things have been made publicly available and will be released as part of the development agreement.
However, while Tucson Water is required to provide water, they can and will put restrictions in place.
I can’t, as a city resident, simply use water 24/7 for say, an underground bottling facility. They’d come in and shut me down - my rights are not infinite and to that point - Project Blue will also be capped at specific amount.
The County’s contract is contingent on annexation, so it is moot until the city makes a decision.
Finally, the city’s decision window was outlined here in the TA a few days ago.
A vote is expected in mid August.
We all want that information, but they’ve very specifically said it is proprietary. Sounds like the city, lead by Councilperson Lee, is working hard to get some answers.
In Mr. Ferguson's first response he said, "However, Tucson Water can and will put restrictions in place . . ."
When I asked him to show me the statute that allowed TW to restrict water use. He changed his mind and said the restrictions would be in Tucson's contract withProject Blue.
The contract hasn't been written yet. There's no evidence the majority of the city council plans to put water or electrical restrictions in the contract with Project Blue.
There won't be any do overs, if the contract doesn't have any restrictions or, if it has restrictions that aren't good & smart enough.
After all, the Pima County Supervisors voted 3 to 2 to give Project Blue unrestricted access to our reclaimed water before it even gets to Tucson.
Project Blue was saying the wanted 2 years of an unknown amount of potable water from Tucson. Now they're quoted as saying they want 3 years of potable water from Tucson. With nothing in writing, who knows how much water and for how many years Project Blue take our drinking water, if the city goes ahead and annexs PB..
1. Tucson Water, a wholly owned subsidiary of the city of Tucson, has provided input to the city manager's office (who used to be the director of Tucson Water until he was promoted to deputy city manager and now is the city manager) for the development agreement. I didn't change my mind, they are both on the same side of the negotiating table. More importantly, water is far more complicated than a single statute in Arizona Revised Statues.
Active management areas, contracts related to individual use between Tucson Water and various statutes give.the city the ability to manage its water use of its customers, both large and small.
2. Of course the contract has been drafted. The city, Councilwoman Lee and this publication all have posted public timelines for Project Blue. We all have said a development agreement is expected to be made public next week. I sincerely doubt they are starting from scratch on Monday.
3. You are trying to use a negative proof fallacy. Due to the NDA, we don't know what the city(and by extension the mayor and the Council) has or has not asked for in the contract.
But you are also ignoring the big purple pipe that has been made public that would be paid for by the developer to deliver reclaimed water from the city of Tucson. This is proof that the city has had advanced talks about water and how much Project Blue wants to use. Also, while I will concede it is a massive pipe by the laws of physics suggest how much water can be delivered.
4. The Pima County Supervisors voted 3 to 2 but it has nothing to do with water. They don't have a water utility and can't confer water rights from the city's water supply. (Drilling for water would also violate Tucson Water's management area.) Their vote sold them the land, and the developer knew it would have to be annexed into the city to get water for the data centers. A second vote by the Supervisors was related to zoning.
5. We don't know how long it will take to build the 18 mile reclaimed water pipeline and the associated pumping stations. The variance is based on time estimates, but I expect the annexation agreement will put a time certain on how long they have to build the pipeline.
Sorry, but an unscientific poll is a waste of journalist' and readers' time. It means nothing. If it turns out to be consistent with the results, it doesn't gain validity, it just reflects coincidence.
Scientifically, I agree and we will always point out flawed polls when they fall into our email.
I'll take full credit/blame for this.
I think it is a great way to connect with our subscribers and add a little light-hearted fun into the Tucson Agenda once in a while.
I'm interested in what our readers think, in the comments and if they prefer a less direct way of contact - how they answered a poll.
Also not answering a poll tells me a lot about whether we should do it again for the Council races....
Just because Project Blue claims it's proprietary information doesn't mean it is.
In fact claiming it's proprietary is nonsense. Thay got Pima County to sign a contract with no idea of how much of our dwindling water supply they'll consume and no idea of the cost to upgrade our electricity infrastructure.
You're both making assumptions about Tucson's/Tucson Water's legal ability to limit Project Blue's water use once they've been annexed.
Produce the statutes that allow limiting water use within Tucson.
You can go to the listening sessions and say this.
Other people, including one of the city councilor members already have.
When Jennifer Allen and Nikki Lee answered questions Monday on DGT, neither one claimed Tucson Water had any ability to restrict Project Blue's water use after annexation.
Both are calling for environmental impact reviews before economic development projects can be approved, one at the county level and the other at the city level.
No, I am not speculating. I've talked to Nikki Lee and Jennifer Allen, and two dozen other sources about Project Blue.
Asking for a statute isn't the right venue, you want to look at the development agreement they will sign in exchange to be annexed into the Tucson. That contract is going to be the main enforcement arm of the city IF the development agreement is signed. There WILL be a limit to how much they can use.
The city literally has the wrench (or button if you want to me technical) to turn off the water if Project Blue violates their agreements.
Yes, lawyers would be involved long before someone grabs the wrench but the ultimate power lies with the city as BP isn't pumping groundwater.
Additionally, it will be reclaimed water, which the city/county can only produce a specific amount. No matter how much PB wants to use, there is a finite supply.
In other words, there's nothing currently in place to limit PB's use of our water. We're holding our breathe hoping the city will be smarter than Pima County was and write water limits into the city's contract.
Pima County had the ability to limit access to our reclaimed water and it did not. Pima County's contract provides PB with access to the reclaimed water as it comes from the sewage treatment facility before it even gets to Tucson Water!
Please see my other response. But Pima County does not have any ability to grant access to water in the Tucson metropolitan region.
County residents (near Tucson) must get their water from nearby utilities.